14-Nov-2008, 02:34 PM
Re: Which shooting style is better? Palm or wrist?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 10:50:08 AM »
the palm roll is not more accurate than a wrist shot for 99% of the things you would use it for
every good player can do both
when you use one or the other is based on the shot you choose
it is basic knowlege that the palm is used on certain shots and the wrist others
As with the push shot, you may find an exception to the rule but as I stated in that post, the rule is there for a reason and it is not wise to build key elements of your game around the exception when you have a choice
SHOTS AND CIRCUMSTANCE TO USE THE WRIST OR PALM ROLL (OPEN HANDED)
WRITST SHOTS
Pull shot - nearly 100%...out of the top 100 pull shot shooters (proven tournament history not local legend) none have ever used a palm roll to shoot their pull...this is true on the 3 and 2 bars
Pushkick - same as pull
Backpin - well, it doesn't have the history and despite someone on here saying they shoot a backpin succesfully using a palm roll, if you want to have a competition level backpin you will use your wrist
Sling shot - wrist only or you will launch the ball right off the table
Push from goal - the only time knowing players might use the open hand is if they are wanting to do a long and they want to square it off but if you are going to do that, you might as well shoot the pushkick.
PALM ROLL
Euro Pin - nearly 100% just like pull only palm roll...I have seen people try and do this without using a palm roll, especially when trying to shoot the push side using the palm roll since that is so hard to do, but of the many proven Euro Pins from Europe (strangly enough eh Wink) they are all palm rolls
Rollover - Well, not really a palm roll but it is definately not a wrist shot except that it starts on your wrist...100% roll Cheesy
Bank Shots from the 2 rod - you can hit a bank with your wrist but it isn't as crsip or accurate and it is very hard on your wrist
Pull Kick from 3 rod - many more people who shoot this as a competition shot use the palm roll for all the options which move the ball from 3rd man to the 2 man and wrist for all the inside 3rd man pull options with the exception of a standing angle these are a little more mixed but I think it leans toward the wrist. Some people will use the wrist with pick up shots and tic tac shots but for those who use it as a primary competition shot, I think you will find the largest group doing a palm roll...very natural feel, very hard, very fast, and can go very deep...I think this is the most accurate palm roll especially on Tornado...some other tables I would rank the bank shot from goal equally accurate but given the shape of the front foot on the Tornado man, the bank is not as accurate
Pull Kick from the 2 rod - now this is a complete mixed bag...I think you will see many of both and even from the same players. as an example Todd Loffredo uses both...I think a lot of this depends on two things...if you are wanting to cut your pullkick back (the "7") then you will get the best results from your wrist because it is more accurate and allows you to preform the brush motion needed to preform the "7"...if you want straight on goal power you go open hand/palm roll...however, this can be dependent somewhat on the table and ball conditions because if the ball is fying off the table easily, then the wrist shot is probably the better option assuming you don't want to be launching the ball off the table every time you attempt the thing
Tic Tac from 3 bar - you will find both, more likely palm rolls on pull kick side than pushkick side but you will see many tic tacs done using the wrist in all circumstances
Push from 3 bar - now this is a totally mixed bag..plenty of both...open handed allows you to hit it harder, longer, and more square (all things being equal) the wrist will give you more accuracy inside and can still be powerful but there is nothing quite like a violent opened handed long push (unless you see me shoot one with my wrist Angry)
the palm roll takes a little longer to do and so for things where you need a quicker response or more accurate strike you will use the wrist (pull, Pushkick, "7")...for those things where time isn't so much of an issue (pullkicks and banks) and/or you want more power (banks or showy tic tacs) then the palm roll is the way to go
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 10:50:08 AM »
the palm roll is not more accurate than a wrist shot for 99% of the things you would use it for
every good player can do both
when you use one or the other is based on the shot you choose
it is basic knowlege that the palm is used on certain shots and the wrist others
As with the push shot, you may find an exception to the rule but as I stated in that post, the rule is there for a reason and it is not wise to build key elements of your game around the exception when you have a choice
SHOTS AND CIRCUMSTANCE TO USE THE WRIST OR PALM ROLL (OPEN HANDED)
WRITST SHOTS
Pull shot - nearly 100%...out of the top 100 pull shot shooters (proven tournament history not local legend) none have ever used a palm roll to shoot their pull...this is true on the 3 and 2 bars
Pushkick - same as pull
Backpin - well, it doesn't have the history and despite someone on here saying they shoot a backpin succesfully using a palm roll, if you want to have a competition level backpin you will use your wrist
Sling shot - wrist only or you will launch the ball right off the table
Push from goal - the only time knowing players might use the open hand is if they are wanting to do a long and they want to square it off but if you are going to do that, you might as well shoot the pushkick.
PALM ROLL
Euro Pin - nearly 100% just like pull only palm roll...I have seen people try and do this without using a palm roll, especially when trying to shoot the push side using the palm roll since that is so hard to do, but of the many proven Euro Pins from Europe (strangly enough eh Wink) they are all palm rolls
Rollover - Well, not really a palm roll but it is definately not a wrist shot except that it starts on your wrist...100% roll Cheesy
Bank Shots from the 2 rod - you can hit a bank with your wrist but it isn't as crsip or accurate and it is very hard on your wrist
Pull Kick from 3 rod - many more people who shoot this as a competition shot use the palm roll for all the options which move the ball from 3rd man to the 2 man and wrist for all the inside 3rd man pull options with the exception of a standing angle these are a little more mixed but I think it leans toward the wrist. Some people will use the wrist with pick up shots and tic tac shots but for those who use it as a primary competition shot, I think you will find the largest group doing a palm roll...very natural feel, very hard, very fast, and can go very deep...I think this is the most accurate palm roll especially on Tornado...some other tables I would rank the bank shot from goal equally accurate but given the shape of the front foot on the Tornado man, the bank is not as accurate
Pull Kick from the 2 rod - now this is a complete mixed bag...I think you will see many of both and even from the same players. as an example Todd Loffredo uses both...I think a lot of this depends on two things...if you are wanting to cut your pullkick back (the "7") then you will get the best results from your wrist because it is more accurate and allows you to preform the brush motion needed to preform the "7"...if you want straight on goal power you go open hand/palm roll...however, this can be dependent somewhat on the table and ball conditions because if the ball is fying off the table easily, then the wrist shot is probably the better option assuming you don't want to be launching the ball off the table every time you attempt the thing
Tic Tac from 3 bar - you will find both, more likely palm rolls on pull kick side than pushkick side but you will see many tic tacs done using the wrist in all circumstances
Push from 3 bar - now this is a totally mixed bag..plenty of both...open handed allows you to hit it harder, longer, and more square (all things being equal) the wrist will give you more accuracy inside and can still be powerful but there is nothing quite like a violent opened handed long push (unless you see me shoot one with my wrist Angry)
the palm roll takes a little longer to do and so for things where you need a quicker response or more accurate strike you will use the wrist (pull, Pushkick, "7")...for those things where time isn't so much of an issue (pullkicks and banks) and/or you want more power (banks or showy tic tacs) then the palm roll is the way to go
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