Tier 1 League Sheet

[PACKER]

There has been talk about a Tier 1 League Sheet. One that is more tailored to prep for tournaments and more serious play.

The guys in Toronto don't even use sheets, they just run DYPs a couple times a week. But the difference is in their mindset Jay Wong told me last time I was playing with them that they all understand and accept the idea that everyone comes to foosball to "kill eachother". They don't hold back ever and always try their best which is their reasoning for a deeper talent pool even though they have less players.

Now I understand that in Ottawa we have a slightly different view. More of a let's come out and have some fun philosophy. Yet I think there is quite a bit of competition in the top tier (at least a bunch of shit talking lol), which is why we enjoy staying afterwards to play money games, and participation in out of town tournaments has increased.

Here is my proposed Tier 1 League Sheet:

[attachment=61]

1) Roto Doubles (all players play)
2) Goalies' Delight Roto Doubles (all players play)
3) Singles (all players play)
4) Speciality (all players play)
5) 3man-2ball Rollerball (all players play)
6) Doubles (all players play - but player 3 on both teams is only guaranteed 2 games, while players 1&2 are guaranteed 3 games)

1&2) Roto/Goalies' Delight: I suggest starting with the roto games because everyone gets to play, & they are good warm ups for Singles rather than playing the singles matches cold. If we are going to be taking singles more seriously to prep for tournaments, then we should get a feel for the table with the Roto games.

3) Singles: I feel shafted when I'm player 2 because I don't get to play singles. With three matches it takes slightly longer, but I've combined 3-man and rollerball to save time later.

4) Specialities: Again to make it more fair we have all players participating in the specialties games.

5) 3M2B: To save time, but keep the Spirit of 3-Man on the league sheet, it is now combined with 2ball Rollerball. This 3man-2ball Rollerball (3M2B), will be an amusing game where everyone participates and acts to chill the mood going into doubles while being sort of a toss up match since there is more luck and less skill involved.

6) Doubles: I now realize the issue (same matchups in both sets) with my 888 Version of doubles. There is no way to fix this while keeping the value of 8 for each player. For this sheet I've used the 332 Version doubles sheet that Jesse and Dan K suggested.

Overall there is one extra match as compared with the other sheet so it might add an extra 5-7 minutes on the night but I think it's worth it to make all of the players of relatively equal importance to the team each night. If we really wanted to save time, we could eliminate one of the roto games since they are essentially the same. That being said I think we should keep them both.

So Whatcha Think?

[rustyspurs]

LOL I love the sheet it is really interesting and looks like a ton of fun. I think this should be tried on a trial basis in an upcoming league. Dont know if we can implement without a trial due to the whining that would probably take place if we changed course in the middle of a league.
I dont know if I agree with your comments about the reason Toronto players stronger than Ottawa group. We are just older and slower for the most part.
Looking forward to others opinions on the sheet which I really like.

[Jon]

I like the proposal a lot, it's definitely geared to more serious foos. As long as the points at the end of the night are the same as other tiers I would say go for it if both opposing teams want to do it. However the overall stats would be affected since there is one added game with this sheet!

[Jester]

Yeah we can't start this until next league imo. Looks great though, incorporating 3man and roller is one of your greatest successes. I agree with you on why Toronto has deeper talent, one point you left out though, with 3 man teams the challenge of A) Knowing 2 other people that enjoy foosball and B) Getting both those guys out every Wed is a deterant for a new single player. Im one of the only younger players that actually showed up and played my first league with 2 other randoms that also didn't know each other. Packer had Thomas to coach him, I didn't have that, every week I got served a different dish (and most of the time it was served raw ) and for most that deters.

[5000 Years Old Man]

consider that the advantage of singles first is that if one of the three is late
games can still proceed for a while without having to alter the sequence...
means nothing to me personally as I can't remember one single time ever that I was late
but then, that might matter for others that have conflicting schedules and/or bitching spouses

you are not saying whether 3M2B has 2 or 3 men playing at the same time
if it is 3 and I fear it is, I'd really like to put this conceptually fun puppy out of its misery -- it is not fun at all!
there is a difference between liking it and just liking the idea of it, a big difference indeed
I love you all kids, but frankly I don't care to be physically that close to any of you... with two or three possible exceptions [Image: http://www3.sympatico.ca/egidio.smiderle/wuf.jpg]

regarding vote, well, I'm voting right here by the fact that I'm commenting on it, otherwise why would I bother?

"In vino veritas" "in aqua sanitas" drink beer!

[rustyspurs]

Easy fix just make that 2 ball rollerball game a roto game and you wont be runnning into each other and still have some fun with a touch of skill. Three man will just be bump and hump as Gid says. LOL.
V

[5000 Years Old Man]

...We are just older and slower for the most part...

right, and more

my propensity to "playing for fun" does not stem from an exercise of freewill, not quite

playing is fun, winning is funnier

for heaven shake, I turned seventy last year

playing for fun is not entirely my decision

---

get off the computer, facebook, and the twitter -- junk you phone and go out make real friends

[jpguywatchout]

if you are looking to lose a game, get rid of 3-man....

[deliverance]

if you are looking to lose a game, get rid of 3-man....

This plus what everyone else said.

[PACKER]

Ok great input. So I'm hearing get rid of 3-man for roto 2 ball rollerball... done.

if the points at the end of the night are the same as other tiers I would say go for it if both opposing teams want to do it. However the overall stats would be affected since there is one added game with this sheet!

You are absolutely right Jon, so I got rid of roto doubles. We could also argue that points are harder to earn in tier 1, so maybe one more game wouldn't be the end of the world?? I mean anyone (including us) benefits from dropping a tier so why shouldn't those in tier 1 benefit a little by having that extra point floating around. At the end of the day it might be easier to just keep the number of available points the same so that's what I've done in this revised league sheet:

1) Roto Goalies' Delight (All Players Play)
2) Singles (All Players Play)
3) Specialties (All Players Play)
4) Roto 2 Ball Rollerball (All Players Play)
5) Doubles (all players play - but player 3 on both teams is only guaranteed 2 games, while players 1&2 are guaranteed 3 games)

[attachment=64]

This sheet is more tournament like which I think that tier 1 players will enjoy. This is also the most even in terms of player contribution, while allowing for teams to still apply strategy in determining who should be matched up against who for the singles/specialties.

[rustyspurs]

I really like it. Perhaps ask the other Tier 1 Players what they think at league and see if we can implement without disadvantaging the potential league winners and playoffs outcomes.
I think it would be a welcome change and enhance competition.
V

[5000 Years Old Man]

I don't see why any of this should be for tier 1 only

teams move up and down

composition of teams changes from one league to the next
out of necessity composition of teams changes even during a specific league

same league same games, same league same rules

never a good idea changing rules after game starts
never a good idea to treat some different from others

all should have a say on this sort of change

have a GM and all that show up vote

if yes, implement it for next league

---

only a few weeks left before the end of this one

[jpguywatchout]

i echo the sentiment that these sheet changes (approved) be reserved for next league... it wasn't clear to me whether this had already been established.

Not sure about the other tiers though.... 3-man and 2-ball rollerball games are important points for less-skilled teams in a given tier. i know, because i've thrived on getting those points in the lower tiers to win the night when playing against teams that are more skilled than my teammates.

3-man and 2-ball have always been about giving the underdog a chance to win going into the doubles match-ups at the end of the night...

when you've had some of the newbie partners i've had... 3-man and 2-ball games are a welcome relief. don't lose sight of that.

[5barwarrior]

As gid mentioned, you need to run the singles first so that you can start games on time - 8:00 is start time, not "I'm on my way", or "warm up time".

Other than that, it does look interesting, less silly games and more serious ones.

[PACKER]

Ok I understand the reason that singles are first so that is an easy fix.

i echo the sentiment that these sheet changes (approved) be reserved for next league... it wasn't clear to me whether this had already been established.

I agree that we shouldn't implement this idea into this league, I was just starting the conversation so that the idea is ironed out for next league.

It sounds like people will be up for it at least in tier 1, but I agree with JP that it would have to be only for tier 1 because it is not tailored to, and wouldn't be received well by the "once a week for fun" players.