Winter League - Week 6

[5barwarrior]

Interesting analysis:

If we maintain the status quo this would the tiers for the next three weeks:
Tier 1:
Jon - PLA
JP - Family
Merv - M&M
Vern - Jar

Tier 2:
Jesse - Pulled
Kevin - IGYSRH
Mario - Europe
Josh - AJS

Tier 3:
Melisa - Kirby
Evan - Hammer
Eduardo - Kamikaze
Mary - Balls

There is a bit of a yo-yo effect that we see with Vern, Melisa and Jesse's teams. Josh was the exception this week only barely (could have easily been Evan's team, making a full set of yo-yos)

Now if we take Gid decision and rank the teams based on total points they would look like this:
Jon
JP
IGYSRH
Josh

Merv
Vern
Jesse
Mario

Evan
Eduardo
Melisa
Mary

Although I would instigate a no two jump rule, so Josh would go to tier 2 and Merv would stay in tier one, resulting in:
Jon
JP
IGYSRH
Merv

Vern
Jesse
Mario
Josh

Evan
Eduardo
Melisa
Mary

It is hard to say which is better. Certainly we would like to avoid the yo-yoing effect from the first scenario, but some of the match ups in the second scenario would create unbalanced match ups - Should IGYSRH move up and get destroyed? Should Vern team stay in tier two and clean up again for a second rotation?

I think we will keep the original format and analyze things for a possible change for the next league.

[deliverance]

IGYSRH can be competitive in tier 1 with Omar.

When Omar joins Jesse's team in January, they'll be way stronger than tier 2.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't -- but I welcome tough competition in tier 2, gives us another chance to beat Omar.

[foosboss]

I have no issues with keeping the status quo and simply initiating the discussion for the benefit of next league. That being said, if we discover/suspect some sandbagging loophole, I think that should be addressed immediately (possible team captains meeting).
That being said, I don't suspect something of the sort to be going on.

[shadi]

I have no issues with keeping the status quo and simply initiating the discussion for the benefit of next league. That being said, if we discover/suspect some sandbagging loophole, I think that should be addressed immediately (possible team captains meeting).
That being said, I don't suspect something of the sort to be going on.

That being said, I agree with Frank. lol

[5000 Years Old Man]

ditto - that being said

[Stavros]

My thoughts...feel free to pick them apart.

It seems to me to make sense that after each rotation the best team (IMO based on winning the most matches in the tier rather than overall points) of the tier moves up and the worst moves down, but at some point (perhaps after x weeks of league) we can figure out how to determine which tier each team belongs for rest of league. I don't think you can use points as a measuring stick as it could result in the best team from a tier being bumped down to destroy the tier below (although some of of this could be acceptable or even desirable, and I explore it further below). Using points could also incorrectly make someone jump two tiers which is insanity.

A few ideas (#'d for reference):
#1 If a team makes the jump to the next tier two times, they belong in the higher tier no matter what. This will take care of the problem of yo-yoing, which; as far as I'm concerned; is primarily a problem of their ability to collect points rather easily compared to the tier they came from (which can result in them being the worst team of a tier so being knocked down, only to return to the higher tier in 1st place).
For clarity an example: Peter North's team started in Tier 1 but was knocked down to tier 2 two times but managed to get back to tier 1 every time. As they have crossed the threshold to be included on a more permanent basis into Tier 1, they stay there for good, meaning that when Ron Jeremy's team; “Co-eds”; from tier 2 starts banging in the balls (to much fanfare), they earned their place in tier 1 for the next round - so the SECOND LAST place team from tier 1 (Bobbi Starr's team) would be humped down instead of the last placed team (because last place based on matches won in the round was still Peter North) from tier 1. This makes sense to allow Bobbi's team to get a few easier points since the team under her was able to do just that 2 times! The only issue I see is what impact would this system have on the top 2 teams of the tier if they always remained on top. May be quite the handicap (although less so than if the bottom team could always move down a tier, which I think is currently the case).

#2 You can only be bumped to the tier below 1 time (assuming you made it back up), making the easier points obtainable to all teams within a tier, and also exposing the tier below to the best of the next tier occasionally so they can be inspired and learn a thing or two. Please ensure (as you guys are already very good at) to be courteous and answer all questions and teach them your best moves and how to shut them down ;o)
This also helps everyone know each other from a social perspective.
After each team in the tier has already been bumped down the same number of times it again goes to the last place finisher of the round, yet of course gives preference to new teams to the tier that haven't yet been bumped down.

#3 Vote: At the end of each round teams are asked to write on the score sheet who should be moved to the next tier up and to the next tier down. Voting for yourself (is or is not) allowed (I don't know which is better). Ties in voting are broken based on points.

Steve

[jpguywatchout]

good ideas and examples... but i'd find it hard to tell the 2nd worst team in the tier that they go down even though they ain't the worst.... it kinda confuses things for me, and i think it could start changing people's motivations... we don't want to be in a situation where people start losing games on purpose to remain the worst team or whatever the case may end up being. (plus it's just a more complicated format to keep track of and monitor, since none of us are really paid to run this stuff).

loser in the tier goes down... if they beat up everyone down there, all the power to them. for the most part it works out that you level out and play people about your own skill level. This format is tried and true man. Eventually, the team that bounces up and down between tiers is going to get better due to the exposure in a higher tier. i've seen it, and i've been a part of it.

This league has been refined over the years to where we've found this balance - finally, for once, you don't have to be the very best skilled team to win the league. (but it certainly helps!)

and most would agree that's the way it should be. i won league a couple years ago playing with two rookies... and because we kept winning, we kept on moving up tiers to play harder teams... until we beat the best over the last 3 weeks. that's the sort of graduating difficulty level we're lucky to have in this city.

in most other city the talent pool is so specialized that newbs are just tossed to the wolves, and not very motivated to come back and get their arse kicked on a weekly basis. we've got something specifically designed to grow the league, ensure people get better (and are rewarded for it), and also ensure that if you are initially placed in too high or too low a tier, things will balance out...

only an engineer would try and fix something that wasn't broken. hands off!

j-prometheus

---

yeah, I'll try and look at it tonight. The only time this didn't really work was in a summer league (shorter 8 weeks) and JP started in the basement and finished at the top without loosing a match. There was some shenanigans with subs () though.

Anyway, I don't expect things to change either way, but I'll double check.

whatever man! it was legit... we earned that title! nothing wrong with a substitution now and then... just ask Jon, who got Taha for Dan against me two weeks ago -- nice upgrade! and then we lose by goal count.... bah!

[foosboss]

nothing wrong with a substitution now and then... just ask Jon, who got Taha for Dan against me two weeks ago -- nice upgrade! and then we lose by goal count.... bah!

That being said, I would not be opposed to a new rule that would prevent a sub from playing against a specific team more than once per Tier restructure.
I would hate for a sub to play against a certain team two weeks in a row and be the reason that team is going down a Tier. The opposing team should at least have the right to refuse such a sub.
Case in point, I'm starting to see Taha showing up more and more on Wednesdays. I haven't seen a non-leaguer show up so often since Belal did in hopes to borrow some cash to keep his Stripper Taxi Service afloat.

[Jon]

Hahaha!! Oh Belal

I agree with Frank on this subject.

[garbaggio]

Anyone need a sub tonight?

[Paul]

we don't want to be in a situation where people start losing games on purpose to remain the worst team or whatever the case may end up being.

People actually DO that type of thing? You'd have to be pretty desperate and particularly lame to attempt something like that. It wouldn't even cross most people's mind to do something so pointless and unrewarding... I wonder how this even crossed your mind at all?

[JustTheTip]

Perhaps the problem (if there is one) is there are only 11-12 teams in this league. With 3 tiers, you play everyone in you tier after 3 weeks and then we shuffle.

If we had two tiers of 6 then there would be less frequent shuffling and only 2 teams would shuffle instead of 4. This would reduce the amount of yo-yoing significantly. I think our league could be divided comfortably into 2 tiers.

[deliverance]

the skill caps between the #1 and #6 teams would be way too large. The format Chris put together makes most sense.

[5000 Years Old Man]

People actually DO that type of thing?

did, past

It wouldn't even cross most people's mind

certainly did

to do something so pointless and unrewarding...

I share your sentiments

I wonder how this even crossed your mind at all?

experience, bad experience

[Paul]

you mean personal experience?